TanyaGregoryJ3Q

econ

Muun is the best wallet ever

JaimeWallsLLI

I was in Italy in the summer, and on a gas station happened the following:

It was a "self-service" gas station, without staff. Before I refuel my car, it was needed to insert my card (payment possibility was only with card), and the card reader automatically subtracted 100 Euro as "guarantee".
After I refuel and piad the gasoline, the amount of 100 Euro was redistribued to my card instantly...

I think this is the "digital version" of shopping cart theory :)

And be careful when you refuel your car in Italy...you need to have at least 100 Euro more, than the value of gasoline :)

mostly_harmless

Meetup report & help make it stick

DominiqueReeseV3T

The Master and Margarita by Bulgakov is the best book. Big words, I know.

Getting paid in bitcoin

AnaMooreC1K

Out of everything said so far, this comment puts a lot of things into perspective. Thank you for sharing it.

devs

Introducing Ark by Burak

SydneyGillNYK

Stacker_Sports

My new coinjoin wallet is powered by nostr and built for a mobile-first world

RickyMorrisonOIR

I'm working on the custodial wallet sudonym: https://sudonym.app
We've got lightning addresses, NFC support, bitcoin & fiat balances etc.
Would love to get some new beta testers!
https://testflight.apple.com/join/0iNabINA

# People are willing to pay for it

Normies have spent [more than $25 billion](https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2024/03/25/bitcoin-etfs-on-better-win-streak-than-95-of-traditional-funds/?sh=7ad225e77148) buying custodial bitcoin vouchers via the ETFs.

Additionally, people have left [1.8 million bitcoin](https://www.coinglass.com/Balance) sitting on exchanges. If these people felt that their bitcoin sitting in accounts at exchanges was worth less than the market rate, presumably they would withdraw it. So it would seem they think their bitcoin vouchers are worth a total of $126 billion (using a btc price of $70k).

Based on the actions of the people who buy ETFs and the people who leave bitcoin on exchanges we can conclude that bitcoin vouchers are worth a total of $150 billion.

# What is the bitcoin value proposition if you don't have the keys to a utxo?

Clearly, the people who have bought such vouchers are not holding their own keys. What I want to think about is whether they get any value from these bitcoin vouchers or if they are simply buying them for speculation.

Here are Bitcoin's value propositions as I understand them:

- Censorship-resistance
- Borderlessness
- Digitally native money
- No inflation
- Seizure-resistance
- No middlemen

If you don't control a utxo, how many of these value propisitions hold up?

- No inflation

And even this one is pretty dubious. There have been enough "paper bitcoin" scandals (FTX being the most recent) that it seems clear that whatever fixed supply guarantees Bitcoin offers are not duplicated by trusting someone else to hold the bitcoin for you.

# Is it possible to use bitcoin without using a utxo?

I don't really care about the ETF people. What I'm interested in is the conversation around bitcoin and increasing adoption. 

There's lots of seemingly simple math[^1] that demonstrates how bitcoin doesn't scale to 8 billion utxo-owning users. You can look at how long it would take to create 8 billion new utxos or how few transactions bitcoin can accommodate (even with lightning) or how inevitably rising fees lead to a higher dust threshold making it harder for poor people to own a utxo.[^2]

[^1]: You should check my math, but I actually think you could create ~500 billion utxos per year if you batched transactions: 52,560 blocks per year * 3000 transactions per block * 3223 [max outputs per transaction](https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/35570/what-is-the-maximum-number-of-inputs-outputs-a-transaction-can-have) = 508,202,640,000 new utxos per year.

[^2]: Again, check my math: if you subtract the number of lost bitcoin ([~5 million](https://river.com/learn/what-happens-to-lost-bitcoin/)) from the total supply (21 million) and then divide this by world population (~8 billion) you get an average utxo size of 200k satoshis. Is a 200k sat utxo going to be that useful in a high fee (>300 sats/vbyte) environment?

In response, smart people have been building things like Fedimint and Cashu and Liquid and Mercury and the list goes on. But all of these solutions involve giving the user something other than the keys to a utxo.

So my question is: 

# Can you get any value from bitcoin if you don't hold your own keys?

Is custodial bitcoin really worth anything?

bitcoin

### Today LNbits team released a new version of the LNURL-pay extension.

Now this extension contain the option to create a Lightning Address for each LNURL-pay code you create.
Now is very easy to have and manage multiple LN addresses on your same domain where your LNbits is installed.

### How to update

If you already have your own LNbits instance (you should), in just few seconds can be done, without even restarting the whole LNbits.

With the separate setup of LNbits core from all the extensions, now you just have to update the extension you want and done, no need for anything else.

- Open your LNbits instance as super admin, not a regular user. If you still didn't saved the bookmark with your admin session, go to your LNbits console logs and check it there, it is indicated with the userid necessary. Use that link to manage it.
- Go to "Mange extensions", and click on "ALL", search for LNURL-p, then click on "Manage".
- Open the details of the extension and click on version 0.2.1, then click "Install". Done!

[![lnurl-p-1.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/fTwDWD17/lnurl-p-1.jpg)](https://postimg.cc/xqFWtDfq)

- Now go and open that extension from the left panel, LNURL-p.
- If you already had created some LNURL-p, you can click on edit and just add a LN Address to each.
- If you didn't have created any LNURL-p then when you create one you will see now the field to insert a alias for a new LN address @ your-domain.com

[![lnurl-p-ln-address.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/rsQQc1tr/lnurl-p-ln-address.jpg)](https://postimg.cc/tnnhNVkq)

-set all the otehr details as you wish for your LNURL-p and done, now you can receive sats to your newly created LN address.

Also now in the received payment details (click on the green arrow for the payment) you will see that if was used the LN address, it is indicated in those details.

[![lnurl-details.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/zDwq1V2X/lnurl-details.jpg)](https://postimg.cc/3WwsXJHP)

Another aspect: you can have as many LN addresses you want, but all of them will be under your hosted domain where your LNbits instance you have it installed.

HAPPY LIGHTNING!